Here is the third installment on Rova Interviews itself with Bruce Ackley
1. What is the difference between structured improvisation and free jazz?
The term ‘free jazz’ is not easily defined, but I would distinguish if from free improvisation in that the word ‘jazz’ implies a relationship to that tradition. So, while free of many confines of traditional jazz, it still uses some devices inherent to that musical history. Therefore, I would say that free jazz has implicit structural elements and might be seen as a subset of structured improvisation. Coltrane’s Ascension and Ornette’s Free Jazz are clearly structured improvisations, and at the same time the definition of free jazz.
Structured improvisation involves the creation of platforms and devices in advance of performance, often free of idiom, that are used to fuel improvisation and to organize players’ expression inside a particular structure. Structure is so boundless in terms of creative possibilities that even the simplest organizational elements can render surprisingly coherent results in the hands of seasoned improvisers, or an established group. With cues and hand signals, structures can be arrived at as an improvisation unfolds, lending it structure in real time.
2. What does it mean for you for creating compositions for improvisers?
A challenge. I’ve had a hard time composing for Rova. I tend to write melodies, which I lack the skills (or patience?) to flesh out for 4 horns. This is something I envision doing at some point though, since 4-part harmony does thrill me. But there’s also what to do improvisationally--apart from notated music--that I need to spend more time working on. Conceiving of structures that make sense and are fun / engaging for the quartet is something I’ve found tricky—especially given how many things we’ve explored over the years.
One aspect of Rova compositions that is particularly special is when we wed composed and improvised elements in a seamless way. Or, when a few notated elements are embedded in an improvisational structure. This is also an aspiration of mine: erasing the line between composition and improvisation.
3. Why do you value improvisation?
I don’t value it over other means of creating work, but it’s a revered ingredient. And, improvisation can be used not only during performance, but also as a part of the composing and imagining process that proceeds creation. Improvisation can be seen as integral to every stage of making music.
In the sense we usually think of improvisation, though, I value the process of thinking on my feet, on using my skills and knowledge to develop a line of music in the moment. Working with others, it’s an opportunity to commune in the moment, much like a conversation or even sex. There’s trust and mutual understanding about what’s happening, what’s being shared and conveyed. This living on the edge of the moment is exciting and rewarding, and reminds us of who and where we are.
4. How has improvisation developed since you started learning to improvise?
Improvising in 1970 meant playing whatever I wanted to (or was able to). I had no background in jazz or any music tradition and was interested in manipulating sound with my imagination. But I was limited by a lack of vision and technique. That has changed over time. While I’m still interested in using my imagination to explore the possibilities of sound, I now have more vocabulary to use, and often specific goals in mind for improvising (vision/concept/structure).
The world of music has shifted so significantly in the past 50 years, with improvisation becoming a part of many types of music. Even popular idioms have incorporated some measure of openness, although the corporate gatekeepers are wary and try to manage musicians away from improvisation. Largely, improvisation is still used in non-commercial musics. I often wonder if much of contemporary jazz is truly improvised, or whether it consists mainly of juggling practiced licks and devices to suit a particular set of changes. In other words, the confines are so limiting that the imagination is relegated to simply making note choices; rhythm is often proscribed by the currently limited notion of ‘swing’.
Improvisation as practiced by contemporary musicians often has predictable results. This is in part due to lack of imagination or ambition, but also might be intrinsic to the situations in which performances happen. I’ve found this predictability frustrating as a listener (and sometimes as a player), and why I value the highly developed and adventurous explorations made possible with a long-standing group like Rova. Many improvisers hold creating spontaneously in the moment as sacred, with the attitude that ‘anything can happen’. But, most often that ‘anything’ is limited and no surprise to anyone except the most casual listener.
Improvising with form presents possibilities, even though it might seem paradoxical. Orthodox free improvisers used to bristle at form, but it seems that more improvisers are open to both structured and ‘free’ playing. Familiarity with structure enables players to improvise with form in mind, even when nothing has been pre-established.
5. What musicians have influenced how you sound and how you approach music?
Steve Lacy, Coltrane, Sonny Rollins, Dexter Gordon, Webern, Bach, Stravinsky, Monk, Herbie Nichols, Stockhausen, Boulez, Scelsi, Messiaen, Little Walter, Sonny Boy Williamson. I mean, this is the same list I would have made 40 years ago, so I’ll have to think about this more. And I’m still inspired by rock, blues, all kinds of jazz, world, and classical music, country, etc. Some music inspires without necessarily informing my sound or approach to writing or playing.
6. What are your goals and what you consider important when you are improvising?
Clarity is most important. The chance nature of improvising often leads to murkiness and a lack of clarity, so I try to bring something that adds to what’s happening, trying to achieve overall coherence.
Honesty, playing what is truly meaningful to me, and stretching out to find something new or unfamiliar. I try to not just play but listen as much as possible.
Building community is important, and deeply connecting with other players makes the process even more gratifying.
Coherent ideas for the listener
Fun and engagement for the player
Interesting connection between open and predetermined material (blow, man blow not interesting)
In the context of Rova, hoping to find a new area to explore
Length of composition, and related parts—proportion
7. What are the elements of your sound and what are the inspirations of it?
I strive for clear tone but like to incorporate a range of noise elements and textures that make the sound charged.
photo by Miles Boisen
8. What challenges are you currently engaged in in music?
Intonation (always), tone production, improved reading, playing on changes, improving rhythmic accuracy as well as forward motion. Writing more music. Becoming more ambitious with writing, organizing as well as playing.
Working toward a stronger leadership role.
9. What are your thoughts about community in music?
So important. But I feel I’ve lost touch with community. Part of that is the pandemic, part is my life/work/family balance (or lack of it), part of it is growing older, part of it is that this community has changed. I recently did a collaboration with dancer Pearl Ubungen, and also with Lewis Jordan. Leading up to and presenting both those events reminded me of old SF days when collaborating and connecting with people was simpler, easier.
Rova has done a good job of promoting community, but sometimes it feels like a one-way street in that rarely to folks reciprocate after we’ve created opportunities to work with us and to have a higher profile gig. The list is long of people we’ve worked with who have not invited us into their projects. There are some who have, and many who have become friends and colleagues.
I’ve grown enormously because of my interaction and connection with musicians in the community.
Community in general is a way of working contrary to the dominant culture, which stresses the importance of individual development and success over all else.
10. Talk about language in music and how you developed your language.
Language development includes sound, vocabulary, syntax, texture, communication, etc. Developing vocabulary felt more significant in the past, but I would like to get back to that. Working on improvisation, both alone and with others, prompts the need to broaden and deepen your individual language in order to communicate to other musicians, and possibly to other listeners. Generally, language development has come as a requirement to fulfill a particular role of voice in a composition. Diving deep into complex compositions can really serve the purpose of expanding language, but it requires involved sessions, alone or with others.
11. What and how do you practice? How do you improve your skills for improvising?
Long tones, always
Scales, chords, patterns
Playing tunes, memorizing them and their chord sequences
Writing on the horn, or writing and practicing what I’ve written
Playing against drone pitches
Bach and other classical music and etudes
Record clips and listen back
Work on tone, pitch, concept
I’m thinking about playing with recordings again, now that I’m set up to do that.
12. Where do you find inspiration?
It’s everywhere. Walking and looking and listening to what’s around me.
Art, movies, books
Conversations
Listening to other musicians
13. What is an example of music you didn’t like at first but grew to love and why?
I don’t know that there was a time that I didn’t like classical music, but I was unfamiliar and not really interested in it. Over the past 50 years I’ve developed a deep love and appreciation for the composing and performing of that music.
I wouldn’t say I ‘love’ it, but I have a deeper appreciation for hip hop than I once had. Often when I’m exposed to quality stuff it resonates.
14. What is a question you would like to answer that you haven’t been asked?
Why the saxophone? Why the saxophone quartet? Why music (as opposed to another form of expression)?
Is improvisation valuable?
What’s the connection between making what can be very physical music and growing older?
In what ways has the commitment to playing with Rova enhanced or hampered your playing, or trajectory of your life in music?